Biggest Business Mistakes Bodyworkers Make (and How to Avoid Them)

with Ramona Rice

Business and Marketing for Massage and Bodywork Therapists

Episode 45.

MINDY TOTTEN: Hey hey there. Welcome Ramona Rice to the Do It With Intention podcast!

RAMONA RICE: Hello. I'm so glad we finally made this happen. I am thrilled to be here. I love being on other people's podcasts instead of being on my own. Now, if I don't love my own, but it's so much more relaxing because it's really, it's like, you know, going to dinner at a good friend's house, you know, you're allowed to bring wine and cheese and that's about it. You're just, just to sit there and enjoy. So like right now.

Mindy: Oh, well, I'm so glad that you are here too. And before we jump into what we're going to talk about today, I always like to start the episodes where I'm interviewing somebody by asking what is something that very few people know about you that you're willing to share with our audience?

Ramona: Here's a big one is that I was diagnosed as a type two diabetic in 2018. And I don't really share that with too many people anymore. I felt. Shame about it when I first got diagnosed. And now that you know, I look at the past several years and yes, was I taking care of myself physically? No, but there was a lot of circumstances surrounding that.

And now that I'm in a place where I use very little medical intervention to do this disease, I control it through diet and exercise and. intermittent fasting. And before everybody sends me all their natural healing, alternatives to that, I I'm, you're going to know about me. I love Western medicine along with Eastern medicine.

I'm very happy my endocrinologist. So before you go, you can use this essential oil. I know. but this is how I choose to honor my body. So yeah, it was a long process of being comfortable telling people that I'm a type two diabetic because I worried that let's say I was at a birthday party. And for the reason I chose to eat something with sugar, people would look at me.

Oh, right. Gotcha.

Mindy: Judging.

Ramona: Yeah, exactly. Why is she eating that? But then I realized, because I was significantly more overweight than I am now. even just two years ago that, people were probably already judging me and he might have put me on what I was eating or honestly, you know, what I realized is that really people don't notice what the hell you're doing.

Cause they're so focused on making sure people know what they're doing. So yeah, that's something that a lot of people. Don't really know. I don't really like blast it out. Hey, I'm a type two diabetic. I don't even know how you would bring that up a conversation. But anyway, that is something that a lot of people don't know about me now they do.

Mindy: Well. I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better. Yes. Yeah. It sounds like it was a turning point for you.

Ramona: It was. I'll tell you, I'll tell you the story. Know, I've never told anybody this. The reason I discovered those types of diabetic. I had a yeast actually that would not go away. And that's a clear sign of women that, and, and no over the top of top and finally Hendricks credit, he goes, let's test you for this.

Am I A1C was 10 and that's super high. and just a lack of not taking care of yourself. So it's basically double what the healthy rate is. Okay. Yes, exactly. So, you know, and my moods were crazy and everything else, and it's amazing when you bring in proper nutrition and moving your body. And again, this audience who's listening to this show.

I'm not telling anything, anybody else's knew. And I grew up in baseball and I know these things, but it's quite another one. Yeah. When you face your own health crisis. Yeah. You kind of have to wake up and kind of go, okay, Tanya, take this more seriously. And I do absolutely

Mindy: well good. I'm glad that you're feeling better and what I have to share, I always share something that very few people know about me.

And I was thinking about what to share today, and it's going to sound really exotic when I share this Ramona, but it really wasn't. So I used to teach in Singapore, shout out to all my listeners in Singapore, over there. I taught at a place called United world college of Southeast Asia. And I thought it would be a good idea one year to take 15, six and seventh graders from Singapore to Swazi land. In Africa, we did a field trip to Swazi land for two weeks. My husband was with us and it was really, it was set up to be a lot of fun. We were with one other teacher and, you know, we did safaris and we help build schools and other fun stuff.

But as our guide was driving us through Africa one day he, she started getting really, she started sweating a lot, said she wasn't feeling well. She had a headache. She drove us into where we were supposed to get that night. And then she left. It turns out she had malaria. She left. And the three of them, we're sitting there with these 15 kids, you know, around the world.

And we just, I, we split a bottle of wine. We were like, you know, what, whatever is going to happen is going to happen. So we're going to have to sleep tonight and figure, and of course the company sent out somebody else the next morning and it was all fine. But I remember just that feeling of saying, you know, I like to think that.

I believe that I'm not in control and that whatever's happened is going to happen. And I believe that intellectually, but deep down, I think I can control things still. You know, that is an example of

Ramona: what you add in like, because my children are on at that age, I have an eighth grader and a seventh grader and my is I know.

You know, just, just the logistics of getting two kids to karate class. I can't even imagine the logistics of getting 15 children to an entire country. And every time I hear Singapore, I think of Crazy Rich Asians.

Mindy: Oh, right, right.

Ramona: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mindy: That's a fun film. All right. Well, let's jump in today and I would like you to start by telling my listeners just a little bit about your journey, you know, what, what kinds of things you started with and what you're doing now?

Ramona: So my journey to where I am is, is like most people, especially when you hit that wonderful age of 40 is long and winding. And yeah, it goes back to really the decision my mother made and she got a massage and she got what she termed as a really crappy massage. She'll use a different term, but I'm going to be polite because I'm on somebody else's show.

so she got a really bad massage and she wanted a career change and she said, well, I got a bad massage. I don't want a career change. I'm a learn how to do a better massage and I'm going to go be a massage. This was in 1995. So 96, I believe she graduated in 97. She opened her business. And since then it's put all of a sudden the structure where we own this massive day spot in Newport news, Virginia.

Like it's enormous. it's. 6,000 square feet, if I'm right. 32 practitioners, four front desk people and a whole lot of clients. but it started with that one decision and how my journey impacts that is one I was, you know, in high school when she was doing this. So being influenced by this woman. Kind of stumbling her way through opening a business.

Cause she didn't start out wanting to open a business. She started wanting to be a massage therapist and then she opened a business. Cause there was no places for her to work that were of quality that she loved. And so she created her own. And so I went to college, did that for a little while, worked in retail, whole bunch.

One major part of my life was I worked for bath and body works. The lotion stores in the mall with the lotion and the, and the, the soaps and the candles. I worked there for many years, worked my way up. From per our time sales associate to a store manager and was one of the store managers they would send to stores that were underperforming.

I'd be there for about six months. They performed and they move me somewhere else. And so I did that for a long time. I got to work at Disney world, which was fun and do the Disney internships. I'm super Disney trained. And I still point like I work at Disney, but it was in 2006. That, I became pregnant with my first child and he was born in October, which meant I missed most of the holiday season and it put my career trajectory and total stop because I was all about this retail career.

I loved bath and body works. I loved working there. I loved being a store manager. I was awesome at it. I knew what I was doing, but having a child and working retail do not mix at all. And he was not a planned pregnancy. So it was like, okay, I've been there. Universe has provided me this wonderful gift. And it was such a wonderful gift because not only did I get have an incredible son, but you know, the day after Thanksgiving, that year, instead of watching women fight over the last bottle of vanilla bean, Noel lotion, I'm eating Turkey soup leftovers, and I'm like, wait, This is what normal people do the day after Thanksgiving.

And so at that point, I said, I need a career change. So I decided to take a real estate license exam back basically in 2007, the worst time ever to go into real estate because that's when the real estate even tried that for a little while. And that was a working and I had a second kid on the way, and I decided I wanted to go back to school and my mom needed a front desk person.

And so she's like, I'll hire you. And in the midst of all this too, I forget, I used to be a massage. I tried that for awhile, hated actually being in the room, but love the business side. So I came back on and brought all that retail magic that I learned from back in BetterWorks and Disney and other places to the company and started implementing systems that my mom.

Fought me on, Oh, we fought and we fought and we thought about how to run the company. And we did that while I finished my degree at university of Virginia go who's. so I'm a big UVA fan and, got a degree from there with toddlers. they helped me walk down the lawn with little kids. It was fantastic.

And, she then forced me to leave. De-stressed the day spot to go work at a normal grownup job did that. And then my husband died. in 2016, and that 2016 was a pivotal year for everybody, at least in the United States. Cause that was the election of our current president and a lot of things happen.

And so there's that before moment. And then there's the after moment and the actor was. I didn't know what to do with my life or myself, because the path I thought I was on, I worked for a really great company. They were so nice to me. They paid for my husband's funeral, but I was not able to function. And I said, okay, okay, I've got to do something else.

And they had shipped me off. I got to go to a conference every year. They sent me this, that year to social media marketing world in San Diego, not a bad place to visit when you're grieving. Cause it's warm and sunshiny and the people are so beautiful. In San Diego and, and I'm there. And I, I attend a mastermind by guy named Chris Ducker and he specializes in people building brands around themselves.

And so I'm sitting there with him and then we're talking about everything. And I say, I think I'm going to go into business, leave the real estate company and go into business, teaching marketing for real estate people. Cause that's what I did at the real estate company. And he goes, yeah, You sound like you hate that, to be honest, I did.

And he goes, you mentioned your has a business. Tell us about that. And I lit up and I talked to the distress and the top of the distresses, and I talk about what he used to do there. And he goes, that's what you need to do. And that's where spot preneurs born. And so through a lot of paps and winding ways.

But other things. I wound up here as the CEO of distress express, incorporated, which again I already talked about and then the creator and founder of , which is my love letter to my mom and massage therapist and estheticians and anybody in the spa based like her who say I got a really bad service.

Let me go learn how to do it better and then teach them the business skills to do it. And that's where I wound up today in this chair, in this room. Wonderful. And

Mindy: I, I should say too, of course my listeners can't hear this, but, Ramona is wearing UVA colors, the blue and her microphone cover is orange.

Ramona: Actually, when I put on this shirt and my nails yesterday, I got nails on them. If you all want Daisy design I'm I love their gel color that our nail tech. It's called Island punches. The great summer color. I need something bright and colorful. Yeah. stitch Fitch of all places sent me the shirt, and the orange cover.

It just happens to me. I love it. That's so funny.

Mindy: So it was spot preneur. I know this, but I want you to share with other folks because Ramona and I have spoken in the past and you know, kind of soul sisters here. my people who I work with, I really get lit up about helping. Primarily women. It just happens to be women, but, but helping anyone who is, who has their own business, who, what I like to say is they specialize in something that few people can pronounce like craniosacral therapy or neuromuscular felled in Christ or whatever.

And Ramona shared with me. And I want you to share with others too, who really lights you up. Your people you really love to work with are.

Ramona: I love to work with people who are ready to get out of the treatment room and who are ready to build a business surrounding day spa. So my mom is a perfect example of this right now, as we are speaking, she is at her Lake house and link Aston.

Her business is fully operational. It's making money and she honestly does not have to step a foot into it. She has one client just cause she wants to have the one client and then that's it. She putters around. She hangs out with her grandkids and. You know, there's a way to get there and God bless all of you are in those rooms with those clients.

I thank you because my body appreciates you so much, especially those of you who specialize in these like really complicated modalities that require a lot of time, any ton of money, and then your clients don't understand. They're just like fix it and they don't honor anything that you've learned. You're like, I just worked with John Barnes.

Don't you understand? And I'm like, what? Who. What can you fix it? so I love to work with the business side of, of day and I, what I mean by that is people who are ready to, move more out of the treatment room and delegate some of that treatment work and client work to them and really build a business.

So for us, Example. I work with, a couple of, day spas, one in South Carolina, one in North Carolina and one in Massachusetts. And they all have multiple practitioners. and all three of their owners are either in the process of transitioning out of the treatment or completely out of the treatment room.

And that's a whole different way of running a business than when you're actually the product Sally. And there's ways you have to look at it differently. So that is my sweet spot. And that's what I like to work with because. Some point, unfortunately, for most massage therapists, particularly massage therapists, more than anybody else you can't, but massage, but so many days these are kind of numbers.

Yeah.

Mindy: Yeah. Yeah. So let's jump into mistakes because you and I have both made them and I've shared my mistakes all the time with all sorts of people, but what are the two or three most common mistakes that you see? Massage and bodywork therapists through the years making, when it comes to their business,

Ramona: the first thing is they don't understand or appreciate the numbers.

That above anything else. If you do nothing else as a business owner is knowing and appreciate your numbers, you need to know how much your business needs to bring in so that you can live a healthy, sustainable lifestyle of your choice. Now I'm not saying you have to be a gazillionaire just because you're a business owner does not mean or require you to be, you know, Jeff Bezos book, rich.

I'm not asking you that, but what I am asking is can you afford the type of food you want to eat? So if you're a person that cares about her health and you want healthy, organic food, if you love shopping at sprouts or whole foods or local farmer's markets that is going to cost more money, so you have to be able to do that.

So that's first and foremost, the other thing is, is when you know your numbers, you get to bake better decisions about pricing, about what kind of clients you see even to, what kind of vendors. Just today. you know, I have a massage therapist, who's a problem child massage therapist, and they have not back yet because of COVID and other things they were asking, well, I want to come in just one or two days, like a month and I know my numbers and I'm like, no, I'm not going to waste time on this, not going to build a clientele with this.

And because I, as a business owner, know those numbers, I can safely say no without any kind of emotion and just say, you know what? No. So it's so important. And then I feel like that's a key thing that scares. Most just business women in general. Yeah. Yeah. The numbers,

Mindy: it's interesting that you say women, because, so what I call it, what I talk about is business clarity, right?

Knowing what your numbers are being clear on, not only the numbers, but what kind of a business do you want to have exactly what you're saying? Like, do you want to work all day every day, seven days a week? Or do you want to work three days for whatever, you know? So that clarity and then also, okay. Well, what is, are the numbers that are gonna allow you to do so, you know, you could only have to see.

One client a week, if you charge $3,000 a session. Right. So having that clarity and knowing the numbers and why do you think it is Ramona? I mean, I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything, but you know, you're on the pockets. Why do you think that women don't want to know? I mean, I have, I have friends who are like, yeah.

My husband takes care of.

Ramona: Yeah. Okay. So that's a generational thing. I think. For sure. I felt like my daughter's generation. Yeah. Is it going to have as much of a problem? Cause we've been really good. Yeah. No, you need new numbers first off. It's a very patriarchal system, the banking system in this country.

Let's just be honest, you know, it's very man based if you, even, if you go into banks, they're manly, you know, they're even, even if they're modern. Yeah. They're manly. They've got like heavy leather furniture and unfree just is manly. I think part of it is intimidation factor. They feel like if I mess this up, I'm gonna mess up everything.

And they're so afraid to make mistakes when it comes to money. But by not getting yourself in your hands and getting dirty with the money that you make more mistakes. That way, the other thing is, is that I think people misconstrued when I say like, I I'm very clear, I love money the most. Money is my favorite thing.

My children know this, my husband know this. Everybody who works with me knows this. And the reason why it's my favorite thing is not because I'm greedy. It's because money allows me to do the things I want to do. Money allows me. For example, my, my oldest son, he's taking an algebra class this summer. He decided he wanted to get ahead of school.

This algebra class is kicking his butt and he is working so hard. So I put money aside so that we can take it through a very, very nice dinner when all this is done, because that's what money allows us to. Or for example, I have, Love improv, improv comedy, and I perform it. And I, part of it is a theater community.

Well, with everything shut down, the theater is really open. I'm able to take the, the I earn and give it to that theater and say, you are important to me. Or if you're part of a house of worship, that's what allows us to do. And so when you. Purposefully say, I don't want to lend the money because my, my husband handles it or my dad handles it when I was younger.

And I, I just can't, this is BS. I just know. Okay. You know, every insertion and origin of the body, there are pastors who don't even know those things. Can balance your checkbook and it doesn't require a lot. It requires going to YouTube reading, great books like profit first by Mike McCollough. It's not recommended enough.

And I'm telling you it's life changing. If you follow that program and you just get some education and there's plenty of it out. So I think it's a combination of those things, but, but honestly, it's a combination of. They're scared to mess up. And they're scared that if they focus on the money, they'll become greedy.

Mindy: Right, right. There's

Ramona: an opposite. Yeah.

Mindy: There's a mindset out there. I think of sacred poverty. You know, this is work I love and it's coming from my heart and I completely honor that. And. As I always say you can't be of service to other people. If you're coming in from an empty cup, you can't be a hundred percent right.

Present and neutral for the people you're working with. If you're someplace in your mind is thinking about. How you're going to be able to pay the bills this month. So I, I agree with that 100% Ramana. and for those of you who are listening, who have heard of profit first before we did a podcast about that awhile back and we'll link to it in the show notes, but it is a terrific system and pretty darn simple.

Are those of us who were not math majors, pretty darn simple to get a handle on your business finances. So here's just one little tidbit that I'll throw out there to you. And this was really helpful for me when I was trying to work this out in my own business. What you pay yourself is not. What you make minus your expenses.

What you pay yourself should be consistent from month to month to month. And if that's something that excites you, that idea, we're going to have a link in the show notes to link to profit first that will really, really help you. That is fantastic Starbucks. So what is. You need to know your numbers. You need to be clear on that.

What's another mistake that massage and body workers make on the business side of things.

Ramona: This, this is a big one. It actually goes along with modalities too. They T they get really excited about Medallia. So I, again, I have 32 massage therapists and institutional, and I've got massage therapists who focus in.

I've got some that, that really specialize in neuromuscular. I have said that that really specialist in myofascial, cupping or sports massage, I've got some that are like the best bamboo people on the planet. But what happens is, is you get excited about these modalities, you think, Hey, that's it all I can do.

I remember my mother. So we're actually a training facility. We used to be training. It's like for  we wanted the first ones in the country and practically every room in here has an bar. Sometimes we have double ashy bar so we can do. Again, when we're not in a pandemic, we could do couples AKI, which is really cool and really awesome.

but my mother comes back this, she goes, everybody's going to learn this modality and all of my clients are gonna get it. And it's like, Oh Lord. So two things happen and either a you're on them that way, or you think if I take this clients will flock to me because of this modality. So they put the modality first and they get that the clients don't search out modalities ever very rarely.

The only time I ever saw this was when Michael Phelps was walking around with the marks

Mindy: right. Marks. Yeah.

Ramona: Very unique thing. what they, what clients search for on the internet is a solution to a problem that you have the result. So you have a headache, they have backup pain, they're sore, they have fibromyalgia, they've got carpal tunnel.

They've got, you know, an ADHD kid and they're looking for any kind of solution. And a lot of them are tired. Of Western medicine approach. So you were in a sweet spot right now to answer this question. The problem is, is you put out there cranial, sacral or neuromuscular, and I know how to pronounce these words.

I know the difference between the two, because in the industry for 20 years, you got a mom who's looking for it. Cause cranial cycle is great for ADHD. It is incredible for it. We have seen great results with her craniosacral specialists, but that's not what we sell. What we sell is this is an alternative.

In addition to everything you're doing. So I feel like relying too much on a modality is a dangerous thing. Dear massage therapist, and Bodyworkers, I'm begging you please. you just can't, he can't do it, you know? I mean, it would be like, McDonald's only focusing on the hamburgers and forgetting the French fries.

Mindy: Yeah. And to be, to be real too, to piggyback on that and to be really, really clear and tell me if I'm miss, miss hearing you, it's. Great. Actually, I'm putting my opinion out there.

Ramona: You agree with me remotely,

Mindy: but it's great to specialize in something, you know, that that set you apart from the crowd. It makes, you know, follow your passion, whatever you wanna specialize in when it comes to your marketing, do not focus.

On X, you know exactly what Ramona said. Don't focus on the words, craniosacral therapy. Don't focus. I know you see this all the time, the brochures that therapists have that said these are all the things that it solves. No, no, no, no. Okay. So tell us what results are people going to get? Cause most people don't even know what increased range of motion means.

Right. Like you said, we know it because that's our jargon, but most people just want to hear, you will no longer have pain in the neck. You'll be able to reach back and smack your kid in the backseat. Now reach up to a cabinet or whatever, you

Ramona: know, there's nothing wrong with saying that. And I feel like. I really want massage therapist to start, particularly our chiropractor, whoever start using real life examples.

I worked in the chiropractor once and he said his job is not to fix the body. The people back to what they love doing. If a guy comes in and he loves to hunt and fish, and I'm able to let him hunt and fish, he's going to be a client for life. Right. And it's so simple. I think we make it to combine. Now. I want to be really clear.

I think education is so important. The massage therapist and the body workers who invest in education, particularly in our practice, I have one woman. Her name is Michelle McGuckin and she actually focuses in a lot of different areas. She's a certified reflexologist. Does wonderful relaxation massages.

She's also a certified she's I think taken every certification. She can a prenatal massage and because she's really smart and noticed she has three very distinct she's taken myofascial. She's taken a bunch of different classes too, but she's really focused on that prenatal. and she does other clients too, but that's her bread and butter because that's her favorite client.

Right. So it's okay to pair the education with your favorite client, but give the results. The clients want to hear not. The modality.

Mindy: Right? Right. Not I'm saying what I used to say. When I, I started off, when people would say, well, what do you do? And I would get talking about the tissues and the meninges around the brain.

And, you know, you can just see like the glaze coming over the eyes, you know, because it was something that I was loved, loved and was jazzed about. So I thought everybody else would love it and be jazzed about it. They just wanted to hear how it could help them. Yeah.

Ramona: Yeah. Yeah. So that's it, that's it? I think a huge mistake.

And it's not one that's necessarily a bad mistake. We're not saying don't brag about your street credit in your education. You should, I, we have walls of all of the certifications, our massage therapist, have we put them up because you know, it's important doctors hang up their, you know, fame wall for a reason, hang up your fame.

We'll have it in the treatment room if you want to, because you've paid a lot of money for these certifications. They look really cool, but don't put it out there instead. Provide the solution. You have a headache. I have a way to make you feel better. Right. And then to prevent the next one. And that's the difference between you and like a something else.

Right.

Mindy: Great. Okay. So we've gotten to know your numbers and we've also gotten focused on results rather than on your modality, particularly in your marketing and your promotion. And when you're talking to people, is there another mistake that you see.

Ramona: I love massage Bodyworkers yeah, a lot of mistakes, but the biggest one that if you could, if you, when you figure out how to do this, you will instantly love your business better.

And that is, you need to understand when you are still a body worker in the treatment room, you need to be the body worker in the treatment room. You need to keep that head on, but there are times where you need to take that hat off and be the CEO of your business. And they are two very different things.

And often they compete with each other. Now in our business, I am the CEO. I do not have clients that I massage or manipulate the tissue. I'm very thankful I have that background because I'm not going to be an awful person and say it, those franchises out there, I was called the pizza huts, a massage, and they do a decent job.

But what frustrates me about them more than anything is that you are not required to be trained in. Any of the services to be an owner of one of those places. And I think that's wrong. I love the fact that I have the background, that I know what it's like to be with the client in the room and know that that's not where my happy places, but you.

As a practitioner, but also as a business owner, you must have business owner hours. So what I suggest to my spa owners is we do, we call power hours and I like to do two sessions a week, four hours, a piece where that is where I work on my business. Right. You work in your business when you're actually servicing the clients.

You work on your business, that marketing piece. I just said, maybe it's research in the next education, balancing your budget and your checkbook and looking at QuickBooks. And yes, I know it's scary. That was in tutorials and YouTube. You'll be fine. I promise. you know, so I, I'm just saying that you've got to separate the time and you need to protect it as you would a client, you would never.

At least the good massage therapist out there, you would never tell a client. They can't come in because of some silly thing. Don't let your day get hijacked from other things set these hours. And these are your office hours and protective like you would have liked.

Mindy: Yeah. That's so interesting Ramona.

Cause you and I have never spoken about this, but I, my language is you have to be a pro and a CEO. So the pro is when you're in the room, when you're using your modality, your terrific hands on skills. And then the CEO is exactly what you're talking about. Where you have to pay attention to your business.

And if it could be done another way, I certainly would have done it because I just wanted to be in the room with the people doing my, my work that I love so much. And I just thought if I built it, people will come. And that's just not the case, because as Ramona is saying, you need to get clear on your numbers.

You need to have clear marketing, you need to clear promotion. How am I going to hit these numbers? What am I going to do? And a terrific way to do that is what you've just suggested the power hour or the power of four hours.

Ramona: Yeah. And you can do whatever timeframe that you find useful. I like to do four hours at a time.

That's the way my mind works. There's a lot of different productivity methods. You can do this, the Pomodoro method, there's other kind of methods and things like that. You do. That part of it doesn't matter. The point is, is get the work done and try to do it when your mind is fresh. As I am actually really good, between the hours of like, say 11 to four after four, o'clock forget it.

I just, I'm not as, as sharpen my game. And it doesn't mean that, which is funny. Cause I do community calls with my community and they're at 7:00 PM on Tuesday evenings, but that's just the way that goes. so other than that time, you have to be honest though. So if you're a morning person. Do it in the morning, wake up early, get your coffee or tea.

Do your meditation get to work. My mother used to do that. She would, when she was, the CEO and the pro, she would have her pro hours in the afternoon because the pro hours didn't require her to think. Right. As much as the CEO hours. So make sure you know about those times, but yeah, I'm telling y'all even just once a week.

Yeah. Then he assigned, since CEO hours will change your business. Yeah.

Mindy: Yeah. And even to have the time to reflect upon what you want your business to look like, and in extension, by extension, what you want your life to look like, you know, if we don't take the time to reflect that, to reflect on that and to really.

Allow ourselves to dream. I know that sounds cheesy, but if there's no time set aside for stuff like that, it doesn't happen. You know? And so the biggest buzz kill when you're trying to do something like that is scrolling. So if you're taking just your downtime to scroll through social media, that is the time that you can put aside to work on your business.

Ramona: Yes. One of the best things I ever did is, when I am in focus mode, there's a couple of things. There's actually an app, a Google Chrome extension called focus mode. It's free and you just go to the app store and get it. And what it does is you can set up different websites. So when it's on and you try to, and it happens to me all the time.

I'm not thinking, I'll go, let me go to Facebook. And it's a. Big like, Hey, return back to work. And it's just a proper reminder of, Hey, we're not scrolling right now. so there's that, but also I will uninstall the apps on my phone when I'm working on a project or I'll put the phone in another room and that made me something for a lot of you.

I know you're handling your own schedule, your own book. And you're like, I got to answer the call. No, you don't. You can set hours where you say these are my appointment hours. This is when I make appointments. Your clients will be okay. you know, and again, especially for most of you are probably boutique or really specialized massage therapists.

You're not gonna want every other person off the street. Again, your business is not designed that way. So you shouldn't be taking calls. All day and night anyway. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I think that it'd be, just do that. And then it's the mindset of, I deserve these hours, that these are hours that are just as important as working in the room, because it's gonna allow you to, when you're in the room to really enjoy being in the room and doing what you love to do, which is whatever it is y'all do that makes me go out.

Oh,

Mindy: And you're right, right. So as we're winding up here, Ramona, how can, when people find out more about you, if people resonate with what you're talking about, if, if any listeners are thinking about, you know, what, I might really want to hire a couple of employees and maybe put together either a small day spa or a wellness center, how can they connect with you?

What's the best way.

Ramona:  dot com. we have lots of great permission there. We do have a podcast it's on hiatus at the moment. again, like all of you, we reopened with Kobe and we had to focus in on the business here. You know, again, I've got massage therapists here. We had to focus on, but we were hoping to have new episodes very soon, which I'm really excited about just now.

there's a lot of curse words. And body language on that podcast. So please do not listen with decent human beings or tiny humans around. no, I'm really serious, please. Don't but if you want to connect with me  dot com or again, you can follow us on Instagram it's or newer, or I'm Ramona rice underscore, and you can hit me up that way.

Mindy: Okay, great. before we go, Ramona, what does doing it with intention mean to you?

Ramona: For me doing it with intention, meaning that I am actually a woman or what I'm doing like right now, I'm sitting here. At my podcast, microphone, my bare feet on my brand new rug. I feel the fibers on my feet. I see your beautiful face and nothing else is going on.

I don't have any alerts going on. I don't know what's happening with my children. I don't know what's going with my business at this moment because my intention is to spend this time with you and your listeners. And so I set up this interview. I let my staff know. I'm going to be in an interview. I let my children and husband know, Hey, I'm in an interview.

I set up my computer so that no alarms, I turned off, you know, the things I needed to turn off so that I could deliberately spend this time with you as someone who has faced loss, at a young age, you know, I was 35 with my first husband died. To spend quality time with a human being one on one, especially now as we are so separate right now with everything going on, that if you can do it intending to actually be with that person that requires you to do some prep work beforehand.

And that's what it means for me do that, have done the prep work that I'm. And then when I am in the moment that I'm here and focused and. Not worried about whatever else is going on outside of my walls right now.

Mindy: Yeah. Very intentional and very, living with presence, like being present. Think about that all the time, you know, just being present, whatever I'm doing.

Come back Monday. Where are you? Come back right now to the present?

Ramona: Yeah, it is difficult, but. You know, I feel like our world is designed to distract our world is designed with a thousand shiny objects and we're all little kiddies running around, but you still have your favorite toy. You want to play with, make that the priority, make that ball with a little bell, your priority, whatever that means to you.

Mindy: Ramona rice. Thank you so much for joining us today on the, do it with intention podcast. I really appreciate your spark, your wisdom, your insights. And I'm so glad that my listeners have had a chance to get to know you a little bit better.

Ramona: Thank you so much. This was so much fun.