How to Create a Premium Client Experience

with Wendy Batten

Business and Marketing for Massage and Bodywork Therapists

Episode 46.

MINDY TOTTEN: Hey hey there. Welcome Wendy Batten to the Do It With Intention podcast!

WENDY BATTEN: Thank you. I'm so excited and grateful to be here.

Mindy: I am so, so happy that you agreed to be on the podcast because I think that massage and body work therapists who are listening to this podcast are going to get so much out of this conversation today. So, a bazillion thank you for joining us. And I want to start off like I always do.

When I interview someone, I going to ask you what is one thing that very few people know about you that you're willing to share with us, and then I'll do the same.

Wendy: So this is a funny story that kind of ties into what we will be talking about today, but I used to work for a professional hockey team and I, yeah, I was thinking right.

You didn't know that either. Did you? so I used to work as their office manager, but one of my positions under that. Many hat job was running the team store, which is funny because fast forwarding years later, I am a, now a retail coach, but I learned through that. and I wanted to just mention this because it's funny when I read your thing that I talk a lot about.

Right. Working for ABI teams seems like a strange thing, but it does tie into what we're going to talk about today because, that hockey team, when I ran the store, I realized that raving fans will buy anything. So it kind of filters through, a lot of different things that happen and how I. I run my businesses,

Mindy: Oh, that's great. I did. You're right. I didn't know that. And, I'm I got a big smile on my face right now. I'm kind of laughing because what I'm going to share that very few people know about me has nothing to do with what we're going to talk about today and nothing to do with business. But I, this is something that's new for me, everybody.

I read a couple of articles last month, about fast fashion. Have you heard about that one too? Have you heard of that term? I

Wendy: am. I'm the I'm so unfashionable

Mindy: me too. Me too. And I had no idea what that term meant, but basically, and, forgive me listeners, if I'm,  going, I'm just brushing the surface of this, but basically fast fashion means that we can now create and manufacture clothing so quickly.

And so inexpensively that what happens in particularly in countries like. America and Canada, where you are. We go through clothes. So, so quickly. And. I always feel really sort of sanctimonious. Like when I take my, my old clothes to the salvation army or to a thrift store or something like that, because I'm,  giving back while I read these articles about what actually happens to the clothes that we give to these stores.

And it's just appalling, it's just. I read the articles yourself. Maybe I will, maybe I will link in the show notes, but what I decided to do, and I got my husband on board as well. Well, starting July 1st. So as I've been two weeks so far, but we made a commitment to each other that we were not going to buy any new clothes for a year, because particularly with a pandemic.

I mean, and you're looking at me right now in my uniform, right? Like it's a life is good. Tank top denim shorts,  and I mean, that's when I'm dressing up, right? A lot of times, my pajama bottoms, whatever, and I have this closet full of clothes. And like you, I mean, I'm not a big fashionista at all, but I've got all these clothes that I haven't worn because I haven't been going out very much.

And I'm thinking, why do I need to keep buying new things? So we are trying this thing where we're gonna try to get it. Going to try to go an entire year without buying new clothes. So check in July 1st, 20, 21, I'll let you know know. So let's jump in today. Wendy and I are friends from a mastermind group of female entrepreneurs and right away, Wendy and I, we got along famously because we do very similar work.

We both help. Other female entrepreneurs and very specific niches with the business side of their practices. So can you explain just a little bit about what you do too, and sort of your journey that brought you to where you are right now from our listeners?

Wendy: Journey as long I started on a hockey team, right?

P S I hate hockey. I don't want anybody to take away my Canadian card, but I really don't like it. But that's the other funny part. But, my journey, I've always,  when you land, where you're supposed to be, which is where I feel like I am right now, I work with creatives.

Who are brick and mortar shop owners, which is really weird, right? I work with, paint retailers, artists, gallery store owners. I work with cookies now. We've sort of a lot of other creative people have come in bakers and , different people who are running, brick and mortar who are fantastic at the creative side of what they do.

They, they have beautiful stores. They have beautiful products. They have, customers that love them. They have passion for their business. And a lot of them are, are, Struggling with the backend. So, and I, I did that. Yeah, too. So I literally started, my 16 year old told me, yeah. At one point in time, I needed a hobby.

Other than her, this is sort of where

Mindy: this,

Wendy: this is a true story. It's two story. I worked. I've had lots of offers, lots of jobs. And, we all have a journey of. Previous things worked corporate and became a dropout. after the hockey team, truthfully, that was the end of my corporate life. And, just ran away from that.

It was too much burnt out and I owned a coffee shop for a short period of time sold that successfully. and really successful coffee shop. When I look back at my journey, I realized it was the customer experience. My customers loved my coffee shop. Like they, they loved that. I knew their name and I knew their copy and I loved that job.

And then I sold that my children were little and  all the things, and helped my husband with his business, which our business, I don't want to say his, but we have a service base, commercial cleaning business, how exciting. Right. So, but I also take care of the customer service side on that business.

But I was bored. So I was made for more is what I always joke. And I say, I felt like doing more and I was a professional, a host re decorator, renovator DIY all the time. And that's when my 16 year old told me,  mom, you need a hobby other than me because, and she was right. so I wrote, I started blogging honestly.

And, the, the. Then the fat story thing. I don't know how you say that, but, is that I took my hobby business of painting and, reliving furniture, refreshing furniture and, just loving on that type of product and head of every other people asking you how to do it. And I opened a store, went from hobby to store.

Just like the journey of most of my retailers did brick and mortar without really having a plan in place without, and Ruby success. Well, he actually, it was really busy. He released a group faster than I was prepared for. Again, another problem that a lot of my retailers run into. so. It had a burnout, you know, could only hold that, hold those plates up so long and run that business and have that fake smile.

And it was a fake smile because I was so tired. I was missing all the things with my family and all the things. and once I learned how to straighten out my business through a series of coaches and piecing piecemealing, all these things and,  learning what a strategic plan was and all the things, Aye.

Aye. Everybody was asking me how I did it. And then I realized that becoming the coach, becoming the mentor for my fellow painter people, that's what happened. It just slowly evolved. And then somebody said, one day you should charge for that. And I did. And then it, , and it grew and it, and now I serve, honestly I'm proud.

I, I I've franchise my business and. I have closed my studio side of it now. And because he just can't keep all the blade spinning and I'm full time coaching with retailers. All over the world right now. So I have retailers,  in the U S and Canada, but I also have retailers all over Europe, New Zealand, Australia.

 it's just, it's such a pleasure and I have found where I'm supposed to be, helping these retailers, and especially right now. Right, right. No, it's, it's been a journey through, through. Pandemic and everything, but, through all of these jobs I made from the hockey team to the coffee shops, through the service industry, my husband and I have, and all the jobs and all the things in between I realized, it's customer experience that I'm very good at.

It was always customer experience that I'm really good at. And, I feel like I'm good at and knowledge,  knowledge of my product and doing work and doing it in perfectly, but that's where, that's what I'm.

Mindy: Yeah. Let's, let's talk about that in just a second. I I'm, I'm struck again, when you're talking about your journey of how similar.

Our people are right. So massage and body work there. Yeah. Usually not always, but usually it's a second or third career. So as I say, it's not your first rodeo, right. You've made this conscious decision that this is something that you're passionate about. This is something that you can do to be of service to other people, share your skills.

Make people feel better.  all of those things are parallel. And what's also parallel is that you get into this work and you don't think about the business side of things. You just think,  you're going to hang up your shingle and you're going to have these fabulous skills. And somehow the business side of things is going to take care of itself.

And I made that mistake certainly. And you did as well, you know, and trying to figure it out on your own. Is just such a nightmare. I mean, you and I have both in our own careers spent years trying to figure out out how to be, have a successful. Business and what you and I,  we've spoken about this before, what you and I both share a passion for is making it easier for other people, , putting a hand down and pulling up and lifting other people up.

So they don't have to make all the crazy mistakes that you and I made. And,  I was just thinking in my mind, like thousands of mistakes that I've made, that I'm so thrilled. That my students don't have to make now. So it's very, very similar story and let's jump into. This customer experience, because a mistake that massage and bodywork therapists make, and I think that creative retailers make it as well, is that you always think you need to get more people in the door, more clients in the door, new clients, new clients, new clients, new clients.

So all the focus is on acquiring new clients instead of really taking care of your current clients, which as you said, is. More important now than ever before, because  you may not be getting many new clients in the next weeks months who knows how long. So talk to me a little bit about what you were saying about customer experience.

So, what is it that, well, first of all, I would love for you to share with my listeners the difference between customer service and customer experience. Cause I made that mistake in the beginning. I'm like, no, I'm cool. I'm doing great customer service,  show up on time,  the difference between that and a true premium customer experience.

So let's start there.

Wendy: So customers. Service is an expectation. I don't even think that's a thing anymore. I mean, I shouldn't say that's not a thing anymore. customer service is being polite and, , having the products that you say you're going to have and doing the service, you say you're going to do, and you know, everything's all fine and dandy.

That's just customer service. Like it's just an ex, it's a department in a, , but it's not, it's not anything to me. Like customer experience a customer experience is. How do you make them feel like how do you make them feel that literally is the only thing I can like really boil it down to when I'm trying to explain to my retailers, how, what is their experience from the time?

Like I walked them through a journey. I'll walk, you I'll walk you through a journey. You need to. What is the experience from the time I hear your name and I Google, what pictures pop up on Google ads and you know what, so that's gotta be, , that's a touch point,  what is your Facebook page look like?

What is your website look like? , not that everything has to be perfect, but does it reflect properly on how, and that's all part of my experience. Are you making it lovely for me? You're making me feel good.  why choose you? Right? Like, cause it's all about the experience, my experience with,  your studio space is different or your, , your space is different than the one next door.

It's all about experience. So customer experience also is, Not just being polite when they walk in the door, but remember their names. And even if you don't remember the names, you know who it is, cause you got a computer in front of you and  that's, you have the advantage over retailers, but yeah.

, with retailers, I train them, , when a person hands you, their bill, their credit cards say, thank you, mr.  Smith, or, you know, whatever, , using people. How does that make you feel? It makes me feel great. I don't care that they're looking at off my credit card. I feel good when somebody says, Oh, good morning, Wendy.

 when I walk in. It's like think of the whole journey that your customer takes. How does it feel when they park in your parking lot and walk up the steps and come into your studio? That's an experience. Whether you want to admit it or not.  it's an experience, how do you, , what is the level up?

What are you doing to make them feel? It literally boils down to how are you making them feel from the time they land on your very first website page to the receipt that you're giving them everything. It's all an experience. Yeah.

Mindy: I wish. Yeah. As you're saying that Wendy, I'm thinking of the word connection.

So like genuine connection with people and in the massage and body work space. I think that. People make the mistake. I know. I certainly made the mistake of thinking that if I do a terrific session, like if I do outstanding cranio psychotherapy, that's the customer experience, but it's so, so much more than that I've learned and what I do, I encourage students to do and people listening to them.

I think about this. How are you connecting? One-on-one. With your clients, like Wendy said from the time that they hear your name and they Google you, or somebody refers them to you, are you letting them know that you see them as a human being, that you see them as an individual? Or are they just getting,  templated scripted?

Email, text reminders from some booking company that says, don't forget your appointment, or are you actually truly connecting with them sending perhaps an extra text or an extra email saying, Hey, just wanted to touch base. I can't wait to meet you tomorrow, or I can't wait to see you again tomorrow.

How's it going?  some kind of connection that says, I see you. Like I know you. I remember I used to be an English teacher a hundred years ago, and one of the best pieces of advice I ever got for grading papers was, and I think that we can use this in all of our businesses. They, they said if you're grading a paper and the comments that you make on that paper could be given to multiple people, students in your class, and nobody would know who's, you know, like good writing.

Yay. Good. , that can be anyone anywhere, but if you make that connection, just like you said, with the names, , this is a fantastic first paragraph, Wendy, or,  whatever it is. And it's the same with our businesses right now, people now more than ever, right. Want to be seen,  our craving touch.

So we have, I think a really unique opportunity to connect with people on a genuine heartfelt level. Is that what you mean?

Wendy: Yeah, exactly. I, again, I think, I think I have always done it intuitively, so when I was trying to put it into like, honestly, and also my upbringing, , all the things in your life come together right.

To, to put things together. but. Yeah, again, using people's name and listening to them and making them. So when I opened my first, the coffee shop was my first place and people would walk in and I would say, good morning, Joe, good morning or whatever. I didn't realize that that was weird

Mindy: that you are doing customer experience.

Wendy: When I go, I go back to, I agree with parents were very, and they weren't doing it for, I wasn't doing it for sales  and again, through my reach to my retailers right now, The same thing, like when they have customers that walk in and, and like you, like, let's, let's, let's talk about the fact that a lot of stores are closed and a lot of your, I know that your listeners are probably half closed, half open.

Not sure if they're closing again and that kind of thing. There's ways we can connect and offer customer experiences right now and still like, use their name. I don't mean to use their name, but. It can still be scripted texts, but it hasn't been, it can be personalized. It can be like under, like using the right words, connecting and keeping connecting connection right now is.

Keeping my retailers alive. you know, even if it, if they're not open, it's very interesting how,  they're building raving fans, they're keeping their customers and the minute the door is open or the minute your, your, your listeners can open the door. And why? Because they, they have built an experience of people that feel like they care.

 I am fortunate that my retailers aren't Walmart people like,  that's how we can, that's how we win. I keep joking and saying, that's how we win against the big box. And interestingly enough, and I didn't share this with humidity, but, just this morning I was listening to, some retail and marketing research.

And they were talking about,  the trends and the , it was a us base and they were talking, she was talking about how what's that on like all these businesses are closing. As we know, big, big stores are closing and life is terrible and all these things, but on the uprise are small, independent.

Locations businesses, retailers. So again, your, your listeners that are independence, which most, I think almost everybody,  that  you attract or are independent, not the big box. Right.  the big ones, They're winning because they're listening and they're connecting and, and they said,  they did all these extents, some surveys on why are you going to these small independent stores?

And the results kept coming back because we feel good there, they're communicating with us.  we, we want to support them there, you know, and they're new. And they were talking about the increase in new people going to, places they've never been before. Wow. It's like, to me, it's like that just sort of reaffirms that what we're doing is connecting and listening and, and really, again, this, the whole experience of why, why they should come in our store.

I don't know if that makes sense, but it's all, it literally comes down to feeling. And honestly, I always flip the script or whatever, when I'm thinking about what, what does that mean?

 what does customer experience mean?  It is  truly fully.  Listening to  your customer  literally listening and asking the right questions and asking them, what do they want?  it's not about us, right?

 I mean, it's really not about, and like you just said, you can give a great service and do all the things and check all the boxes.  but that's not an experience, but if I ask you, why did you come to me versus the person next door?

Cause really they have a choice. Everybody has choice. And I'll tell you right now, it's not usually priced. Like, I've never, like, I have never been like, we're all about service and value based, but the questions, let me tell you the questions that we always ask.

Mindy: Well, I just want to be for you.

I want to just reiterate what you just said that. It's almost never because of price. So you do have that, that subset of people who are what I call tire kickers, like I'm just going to go to wherever the cheapest thing is, I'm going to do whatever the Groupon is this week or whatever, and get my massage or my reflexology or whatever.

It's fine. That's, that's fine. That's great. Those are generally not the people who. Want to be empowered on their wellness journey. They're not the people who are looking to make substantial changes and who want to really engage in their own wellness. So what I have found, and this is such a paradox for me, because  , I was so afraid of where it raised my prices in the beginning, and so afraid that I was going to lose all of my clients and stuff.

The paradox is that often people want to go to the person who charges the most. Because they must be doing something right. Because they're charging the most. Now you can't just,  while you're use a massage and example, you can't just charge $3,000 for a massage and expect everybody to be like, Oh, that's cool.

 you have to have value. You have to deliver results. You have to do this customer experience. But I just want everyone who's listening to hear that again, that it is not. The lowest prices that bring people in for the services that we offer, because your retailers, Wendy, they offer so much more than just paint for example.

Right, right. Offer and experience. Yeah. So tell us the questions that well, so.

Wendy: Through trial and error and a lot of like, whatever, and this is going to seem simple, but it really did take a long, those customers as they're checking out or as they're paying their bill or as they're, you know, however, when you're having that car, when you're wrapping up, when you're wrapping up with your customer and  you're finishing or your client and it's somebody, I don't know.

, I know when I've sort of built that connection, there's those people that don't ever want to talk to you just, but there's other people, , you've had conversation now and yeah. they they're feeling good. They feel really good. if they've been a regular customer or, and this is our goal, right, I am totally a hundred percent on let's become the GoTo and have them come back again.

And again, and again, my customer base. I did not know this, cause I didn't know it, but my customer base was an, I had an 87% return repeat customer base. So I was only growing. I know. And it was, it was, and I was growing every year and it was, anyway that's because I became the go to in a very weird place , but I became the GoTo.

not because of pricing, not because of location or anything as of right. Right. All those things. Right. But the two questions I started asking my, the people that were my ideal customers, my ideal customers that I had built rapport with and I felt comfortable with, and that I wanted to attract more of.

I always ask, like, this is so simple, but I always ask them,  why do you come back? And it's not, it's so funny, but like, why do you come back here? It sounds kind of vain when you first ask it and you have to get used to asking that question. Why do you keep coming back here? And it's and I leave it at that.

You know, I don't ask them, I don't give them a form. If this is not done in a survey, this is not done because you get all kinds of things when you do surveys. But yeah, the conversation that usually follows, is very interesting and super enlightening. Usually it does involve the words I love the way it feels here.

It smells good in here. I just, I don't know, like you just make me feel like I feel empowered when I come in here. That's like, like my retailers used to say, you make me feel confident and you don't make me feel stupid. And , you chat with me. You let me tell you about your migraine because

there was all these things and it all involved feeling at some level. The second thing that I ask them, And I usually tell them, I am literally doing it search and I kind of form it in that question. I always say, what's one little thing about this place that bugs you.

If

Mindy: you open the door

Wendy: and ask them what one little thing. Cause if you say what's one thing that I would, that I should change or what could I sometimes you'll get products, ALEKS? Well, for me, we would get product suggestions or whatever, but what's one little thing that bugs you. Like just tell me please, one little thing that bugs you about this place or about, here.

And they're like, well, honestly, and I learned so many things, so one of the big things, a huge shift for us, which is so ridiculous that I didn't realize was my night. We do, we teach paint workshops at night and outside of my studio was dark.

Mindy: I didn't really, really recognize that because

Wendy: for the stores where I park has,  it was fine, but they were like, I find, I just, it bugs me.

I don't like coming to night classes because it's so dark in the parking lot. Oh, wow. Building little tiny. Like that's just one little thing. They weren't complaining. They weren't whining.  I didn't ask them, , anything complicated. Those two questions have like moved the needle on my service levels.

Incredible. They do that with my coaching group as well too. I've asked them, what's one little thing that bugs you here. One of the buttons in the library, , or whatever, right. It's just, it's just one little thing and we're not going to be able to change all the things,

Mindy: but I was just gonna say that is so, so helpful.

I'm hoping that everybody listening can take those in and figure out a way that you can use those questions. And I see some of my listeners heads exploding a little bit like, Oh, what if they say this? And what if they say that, you know, the key of course is to ask and then detach. Right? Okay. Ask the question.

It's not about you. It's not about,  your skills. It's not about just detach so that like Wendy, you can learn something that you can improve on. I mean, I'm totally gonna ask the bodywork project. That's now like what's one little thing that bugs you. We can make it even a better experience for everybody.

Wendy: So,  let me tell you about detaching from things because I am, I can hear tons.  and  I think this is a common thing, but I wear my heart on my sleeve and I, , truly care about how my customers feel, how my retailers feel. I asked,  this question one time to a, one time and she said, it, it really good.

I like a really good ICA, ideal customer avatar, a really good customer of mine, really good retailer. And I said, what's one little thing that bugs you, you know? And we were in having a private coaching call and she said, this is funny. Now it's funny now, but it really like, I can hear 10 good things.

Right. And. Because I just asked the question, what do you love about this group? Or what do you know? However, I framed it to her and she said it bugs me. And she's like, well, if I had to change one thing, she's like, you don't jump into lessons right away. You kind of ramble and chat and I'm a talker as you and I, at first, I was like really offended.

So I'm just saying, like I learned from that though. And then I realized, so now. I jumped into the lessons right away,  when I teaching and then I read that's right, right.

Mindy: So

Wendy: it's a silly little thing, but I learned from it and other people commented on it after they were like, I love how quick the thing.

So you don't have to take every little thing to heart, , and also every little thing that people would say to me, well, it bugs me. How far out of town you are? Well, That's not good.

Mindy: I can't do much of that now,

Wendy: but , that's one thing that bugs you. Thank you for acknowledging that. And then, you know what?

I can use that in my marketing. Maybe you say we're worth the drive, , or

Mindy: right. Yeah, sure. The script

Wendy: writer or start making people think differently. So

Mindy: Wendy, before we hit record today, you were telling me a little bit about getting ready to have your nails done. And I was like, stop, stop. Don't tell us anymore.

I want to record this. Right. So what you were. Sharing with me is, , you haven't had them done in a while. , it's just like body work. Like a lot of people haven't gone in for their massages and now people are thinking about it and sort of, so can you share with everybody what you were sharing with me?

Like it's been a little bit, and so how do you decide whether you're going to go back or not? And like you were saying, you could go back to one of 50 nail places and how do you decide.

Wendy: Yeah. So, so when, it's just funny, cause you're knowing that it was coming in to talk with you. I was like, well, how does my paint retail?

 and then I realized that,  I'm going to get my nails done and I'm not a princess by the way, folks, but I do like to have my nails done. And part of that is because I was a painter for so long and had really grody nails. Anyhow, I, so I have an appointment and I'm going tomorrow.

And I started thinking about why do I drive. It's a 30 minute. Like it takes me extra hour of my day, literally to go there and , why did I, why do I choose her? and here's the reason there are lots of other options, but, she communicate communicated regular with me through the whole COVID shutdown.

Yes. He's communicating super well about how they're going above and beyond. Guidelines. And I know in the States, there's some places that have guidance. I don't know, assuming that it's the same there, but here where we are, , there's all these rules and regulations and yes, everybody's meeting them, but she's really communicating to us, her clients that, you know, she's taking this super serious and come and safe and she's making it.

She's just communicating super well. but why I've been going there through all the things. And again, my goal, when I talk, teach my retailers and for all of you listening, you want to become the GoTo, right? So why is she the GoTo? There's lots of other places. It's not price. I'll tell you that right now.

She's probably more expensive than I don't even know. I don't even know what the other people charge.

Mindy: Yes.

Wendy: I don't even look. It's not about that. I'm, I'm treated really well there. When I walk in, they use my name. Her team is a, her team is all on board as well, too. It's clean. It's nice. she's also been through all this closure, sharing other community things going on.

She's been sharing other businesses. I value that. That's one of my values and, and,  even though she's been closed, she's like, Hey, Suzy, Restaurants open and, they have a special on this week. Did you guys,  no. And I'm thinking she's just become very community minded and she always has been also the owner.

whether she does my nails or whether it's one of her team members or whatever, always makes a point to, I know it's a family. I know it's a human that runs that store. And that again, how does it make me feel? It makes me feel good to support. And again, those of you listening, if you're,  running your own space and you're thinking nobody's paying attention.

They're paying attention. They want to support you. People want to support you versus,  the big box. I always say big box, but you know what I mean? They want to support you, but you need to communicate that you're human beings running, , and that I don't know. And just that you're community minded and that,  it's just, there was just a lot of other things.

again, when I'd walk into that nail store, nail store, now get my nails done. when I go in the waiting room, She says 200 coffee today. She knows, I like my coffee, black. , I know it's in a computer program someplace on a notepad,  or whatever, it doesn't matter. Right. They'll get like, she's like, you're like at black, right.

That makes me like. Hello. I'm a princess. No, I'm like, no, seriously. It makes me feel good compared to going in a place where I'm in like a lineup.

Mindy: Right. Well, , you feel seen, right? You feel actually validated, seen, like you are a human being, like you said. And I think Wendy, what you're saying about her, staying in touch with you during all of the ups and downs of these closures is.

So, so imperative and I'll share that,  I've been telling all my students and I've been doing this myself with my own craniosacral clients.  I do loom videos, short little videos so that they can actually see me in all my glory and glamour like you're right now. I'm got my hair on top of my head and my little life is good tank top.

but can say, Hey. I see you like here I am, I'm talking to you, how's it going? You know, and I'll ask,  how's the dog. I know that he was doing. Like, because I care about you as a human being. And I will also say. Is there anything that I can do for you is, , maybe to run and pick something up and drop it off on your doorstep, or is there any, not saying each time I'm, I'm cleaning my surfaces very carefully and I'm doing, I mean, yes, you deliver that.

You, you tell them that. And as you say, going above and beyond, but it's about so much more than your services. I think that's perhaps the. Underlying theme of this entire conversation is the customer experience is about so much more than just customer service. And for me, I had. I won't say where, because I, if this person's listening, I don't want to embarrass her or anything, but I went three or four years ago on vacation and I got a massage in another state.

It was the first and only time I have seen this message therapist and I didn't feel seen at all. The massage was fine, but I didn't, I didn't, I feel cared about, I didn't feel a connection. It was just sorta like next,  that feeling that you get and. Last month. I got an email from this person the first time, and this is another state.

First time I've had any correspondence, any communication from this person at all saying, I'm getting ready to reopen and call if you want an appointment. Well, that showed me that, first of all, that went to everybody. She didn't see me as a human being, because if she did, she would know that I was on vacation because we talked about being on vacation while I was there.

There was no. Outreach. There was no connection, nothing in,  four years. And then all of a sudden I'm on this huge email list that goes to everybody. So what Wendy is saying, I think, and what I am echoing here is no matter what happens in the next few weeks, in the next few months, you have the power to remain connected to your people.

And that connection is what customer experience is all about. Did I get that right, Wendy? I mean, you're nodding your head.

Wendy: Nobody can see, you can hear me, , I think my head folks, but yeah, no, it's all about, I don't know. It's being again, being seen, being heard, understanding what, again, I will, the bottom line is how we're making people feel and, but what do they need to be to feel good?

Like what. It once we wrap our head around, head around being an entrepreneur, it's not about our business and how,  the services we offer and all the things. And,  we have a beautiful place and we have great services. Again, anybody I'd like sort of Q next door. Like I like we can check box, all those things.

What are you doing to put yourself in your customer's shoes? And I, I will, I would. and I'm sure, I don't know if you've ever talked about this before, but I tell my. My retailers to walk, like, like I would have them lie down on the bed. Like, is it, are they lying on the bed, looking at the ceiling? And it's really gross and dirty.

I don't know that experience has happened to me before and

sometimes

Mindy: a massage on the massage table. Yeah. That's what I mean, like,

Wendy: do the whole experience, like literally physically do the experience in it about how you can make it better for you? Cause when they, you know, when they step, I'm sure there's a million things I know in our industry, there's a million little things.

Make things better, but seeing people understanding their actual needs, like the littlest thing, like the light bulb in the parking lot that I needed add, like I put one of those little spotlights that comes on and off, it was like a $20 fix, right. That you can increase to communicating during all of this crazy.

Crazy time. And again, my, my nail girl sent me some tips on how to like, take care of my nails while she was closed. Like,  she was sending those to just her nail clients. Right? Like, it was interesting, like, so do whatever you can to, again, you don't have to send individual emails. That's not what maybe you say, Oh

Mindy: yeah.

Or some people can, , I'm thinking, you know, most massage or body work therapists. If you've got a regular clientele coming in, you've got no more than probably. 2040.

Wendy: Oh yeah.

Mindy:  full time, full on regular clients, particularly , who you really miss and you want to connect with them during this time.

So I, certainly,  as I said, I did the videos,  it's not a drag for me, cause I really am curious, like, how are you doing here? I am. I. Want to know, you know, and, and as soon as we can open up again, you'll be the first to know. And let me know if there's anything I can do between now and then, and blah, blah, blah.

I'm also wondering as we wind down here,  you said earlier in the conversation that in your own journey, you were trying to figure the things out and kind of piecemealing all of these different things together. And. What I find with massage and body workers. And I don't know if you find this with retailers or not, but I find that a lot of massage therapists and bodywork therapists think what's going to solve my business problem is getting the next certification, , getting more hands on skills, learning more modalities.

When my experience from my own self and from coaching therapists for years now is. It's not another modality or in your case, another paint line or another product it's learning the business side of your practice or for you the business side of, of retail. And what have you found is the best way to do that?

So for me, the best, the thing that cut to it, the quickest, so I could get the quickest, fastest results was coaching. What, what was it for you?

Wendy: Oh, without a doubt. My first coach,  I've never shared this. here's a story for money. I've never shared this, but like my first coach walked into the door and I just started crying and I don't, I'm not a crier.

Well, I am a cry. You've seen me cry. I was like, you know what? You're like, I was just like, At the end of my rope. And the reason I, you, the first coach that I found was because a client, this is interesting, a client said,  you're working so hard, you have such a great business. And I knew that she was in a position to help maybe help me find a coach.

Okay. And she, and I said, I can't keep doing when it all. I can't,  cause I was really busy and. I had a really great job. I was doing a really good thing and things were awesome and the store was busy and all the things, but I, I wasn't, I didn't have the foundational pieces. That's the business side of your business is more important than the marketing.

It's more important than the, the paint color walls or,  like it's more important. And I, I, I was an accidental entrepreneur and retailer. That really needed help. So when my first coach like walked in and said, we're going to start today.  I had started crying. I just, I felt this relief of like, Oh, somebody is going to help me.

But, and that was, that took a lot of piecemealing of coaching. in those days I couldn't find it, but again, it's the, if you have a strong foundation and this is what lights me up and I know Mindy, it lights you up too. If you seeing your. If I see somebody with a beautiful store and a beautiful clientele, and I see I'm like, Oh, they would just do it.

 they just understand. And then they start doing like, The foundational work, the business and they get excited. Nobody likes that at first, just so you know, but like when they start learning the numbers, the metrics and the math, and like, and we, and you start learning those things and then you learn how to apply your marketing and you learn how to grow this customer experience.

And you, you see that when you start seeing the result, you feel so good, it feels. So good. So yeah, coaching by far has been my, yeah,

Mindy: I had a similar experience where , I teach. Some craniosacral therapy classes for the obliger Institute of the introduction and the overview classes. And I would see people, students in those classes.

And then when I was a TA for a classes around the country, I would see these therapists, which is these fantastic skills. Like,  you see somebody they've got it, like they've got it. And then they would come up to me and be like, how did you, are you, you know, do you. Can you make a living,  I'm about to have to shut down.

And I was just like, , it was heartbreaking. And it was also, I don't know if you found this, but when I was trying to find help, you keep using the word piecemeal, it was like, okay, this person saying this, that person saying this, that for, and you're trying to be online and Google your way out of this thing, you know?

And I think a really, really powerful. Thing to do when you're looking for a coach is to try to find somebody who has done what you want to do. And can show you how to do it. So the problem with massage and Bodyworkers is we try to find, , coaching. I did the same thing, try to find a business coach, quote unquote.

I remember the first time I went to score, which is like retired executives or something like that. I spent the whole hour just explaining what craniosacral therapy was. I was like, this is a complete waste.

Wendy: That was my first coaching experience too.

Mindy: Oh yeah. So it's like find somebody, you know, so the people who are coming to you, you're perfect because you've.

Walk the walk you've done it.  find somebody who has done what you want to do and can help you do the same thing. And I think that's so, so important. And it's such good advice that I just said, but you and I, yeah.

Wendy: Excellent. and I always say, like, I always try to find somebody who's done it before me. Like who's gone before me and you know what? There's always somebody who's gone before us and, and. Understands. And then, it's just, and then surrounding yourself with other people. That's the other thing for me is community that has, that you can allow,  through your coach or whatever.

I'm a big believer in, , we all learn. We learn together. With a coach better than, yeah,

Mindy: I was not that way in the beginning. I was, I was like, I don't want to be in a part of a group. You know how I feel about Facebook looking at those. I'm not going to be on Facebook, forget that, you know? And I was like, all these freaky people.

No, I don't want to. And I have come I'm 180 degrees on that. I learn so much more in a group because you can work one on one with a coach and that can be fantastic. Even make progress really, really quickly. Yeah. But if you're part of a mastermind or a group coaching program, the other people in the group have a wealth of knowledge and experience and wisdom to share as well.

And you can help them. I mean, that is just. Completely accelerated my growth in my business to be part of these groups. But you have to look carefully. I didn't want to be one of 3000 people in a group

Wendy: because great.

Mindy: Hello. but like the group that we were in eight people with our coach was just magical.

I mean, it was such a great number, these strong ones, and doing things that you want to do. Okay. Maybe I can do that too. And so for everybody listening, I want you to think about that. , you do not have to do this on your own. And as a matter of fact, it's really, really difficult to do on your own.

So look around, out there, look for someone who has done what you want to do. Okay. And can show you the way and who you resonate with. You know, there's all different personalities. There's different coaches who do different modalities, find somebody that you really resonate with. And then. Go for it. Jump in.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I, I coach groups, I have like a small coaching group and it's funny because I have the opportunity to make it really big and really fast, , like, and we just keep it intentionally small. Like we, because I want to see, I want to see people,

Mindy: so

Wendy: I really, truly want to see people. And I, I've had all kinds of experts telling me that, , we should, we could go bigger and faster.

Mindy: I would say the bodywork project is small on purpose because I want to know you and your business.

Wendy: That's me too.

Mindy: You want to know the kind of work you do? I

Wendy: want to, yeah. Yeah, and that's great. Cause bigger groups are great. Maybe there's that's for other people.

It's not for me. It's not because I like to talk as you can tell. I like, while I'm, , I want you to sh anyway, that's we could talk about that apparently, , all the time, all night long, but, I really truly feel that, smaller. I dunno, it's being seen again, it comes right back to this. How do I want to make people feel.

Mindy: Right. Yeah. Well, as we wind down here, Wendy, I want to ask you what I ask everybody at the end of each interview. And that is what does doing it with intention mean to you?

Wendy: So, funny enough, I was biting my tongue, trying not to say that a minute ago, because I thought, , being intentional about who I serve and, and being intentional about the products and like the courses and the things that I do, but.

Ultimately I was because when you asked that question, I was like, what, what does that mean to me? But ultimately everything that I'm doing in my world and my life with my family, my, the way I live and, and the whole thing, you know, my decisions I'm, I try to be. Super intentional about how I want my future self to be, or as I'm growing my future.

And I don't know if that's being intentional or not, but, I really run everything through a filter now. And I'm really intentional about, does a lot of people say that designing a life by purpose, but we are, Intentionally keeping our groups small. We are intentionally living, , I live in a small fishing village, in a crooked house.

, but we're intentionally living here. So being intentional about how I want my future self, like as I'm. The decisions I make being super intentional about that. So I hope that,

Mindy: yeah, I think that we're going to have to do another podcast episode where we discuss selling all of our stuff and moving into 700 square feet.

I mean, that's nothing more intentional than that. Right? Another, another pocket. Yes.

Wendy: We've both done that. Right. So yes. Yeah, it's interesting.

Mindy: Wendy Baton, how people find you if they want to learn more about you and your work, because though you do focus on creative shop owners and retailers. You have such wisdom and such a breadth of knowledge in the business world.

And I would love for my people to be able to connect

Wendy: with you. Wow, thank you for asking. they can reach me@wendybaton.com and I do have blog posts. It's interesting because I've recently been asked by a few other industries, peace too.  they saw some blog posts, so there's, if, , as a brick and mortar having a business, there might be something there that might that you're.

and I would love reach out any time. I'd also like to add, this is a really funny thing about, and I wanted to mention it earlier and. Just a quick sort of PS. One of the things that's really impactful on your connecting with people during this COVID and all this stuff is hit reply. Those two words.

Or ask me, they're magical to people if you want them to see you. Cause people are always shocked when I say hit reply, and then I answer they're like, I really do care about people and I know you do too. So anyway, it's just one little tiny PS, just a PS hit reply. So Henry PLI, if you'd like to chat with me as well, too, I truly would love to hear from you.

So again, Wendy baton.com, you can reach me there. I have blog posts. Wonderful. Well

Mindy: we'll link to some of those in the show notes. So that everyone can connect with you, Wendy. Thank you so, so much for being here today, it's been an honor and a privilege to talk with you during this time. And I so, so appreciate you and all the work you're doing to be of service to others.

Wendy: Thank you. My pleasure. .